356: Why The Creator Economy Is The Next Big Movement: Joseph Einhorn of Loot


Joseph Einhorn isn’t any stranger to entrepreneurialism. With nearly 25 years of startup expertise below his belt, Einhorn is aware of the ins and the outs of the sport.

On this interview with Nathan Chan, Einhorn discusses his unbelievable journey from turning into a self-taught engineer for Capital IQ, launching and promoting the worldwide ecommerce phenomenon Fancy.com, and the way his life-long love for comedian books developed into founding Loot.

With a penchant for satiating curiosity and deep respect for creators the world over, Einhorn will go away you impressed to chase your dream and to by no means surrender.

Nathan: The primary query that I ask everybody that comes on is how did you get your job, aka how did you end up doing the work you’re doing right now.

Joseph: Certain. Oh wow. So I’m 39. I’m turning 40 fairly quickly. I’ve been doing startups for nearly 24 years. Once I was 16 years outdated, really was once I obtained my first official startup job, however I used to be really working professionally a little bit bit earlier than I used to be 16. Once I was a bit youthful than that, my mother labored in a hospital and I used to be capable of volunteer on the hospital and I might push the e book cart from the library, and I might go into the totally different rooms and browse to the sufferers. So, that was across the age of 13.

Then once I was 16, I turned the primary worker, like a self taught engineer within the mid Nineteen Nineties for what turned type of an internet primarily based bloomer competitor referred to as Capital IQ. It was a very fascinating time to be concerned in startups and the web and know-how as a result of a lot of it hadn’t been absolutely baked but. So I feel we’ll in all probability speak extra about it later, however the concept we had been attempting to implement know-how that was rising and evolving, even issues that we take as a right right now like consumer server networks and databases and issues like that. They weren’t absolutely operational in comparison with the best way they’re right now.

So anyway, lengthy historical past of doing startups, and finally, to reply your query about how did I find yourself with the job I’ve right now, is type of a profession of doing startups for nicely over 20 years now. I at all times had this dream once I was a child to be concerned within the comedian e book world, within the comedian e book area. As I turned a mum or dad myself, I noticed this must deliver some sort of household exercise to the desk that might diversify our household’s leisure from screens, iPads and computer systems and TV and all that stuff, video video games. So it’s simply one in every of this stuff. All through my life, I talked to totally different entrepreneurs and founders, and I bear in mind speaking to any individual I actually admire alongside the best way and asking them why can we do that stuff. Why can we do startups.

He stated that we’ve an thought of the best way we would like issues on this planet to be or how we would like them to look, or what we wish to see on this planet. We simply attempt to make them occur. So lengthy story brief, it’s a mix of getting an curiosity in comedian books and the humanities, and a profession in startups that type of led me to this place the place we’re right now, which is Lute, my comedian e book store for youths in Brooklyn, New York.

Nathan: Yeah, like it. So cool. I’m a giant fan of comedian books. I actually just like the Marvels, and likewise I’m a sucker for Riverdale. By no means obtained into the comics, however love the TV present.

Joseph: That’s nice. That’s nice. It’s humorous that you simply point out Riverdale. That has a type of necessary half in my story, which is the primary comedian e book that I ever really obtained, my mother obtained me, was Archie. I’m a sort of one that was studying learn how to learn from comedian books and issues like that, so it’s been actually fascinating to see the evolution of comics into leisure. I do know Riverdale is a very terrific present. Should you have a look at these exhibits that they’re placing out now associated to those characters from comics, it’s unbelievable. They’re so artistic and so distinctive.

There’s one on Disney Plus proper now. I don’t know should you’ve seen it over there, Wandavision.

Nathan: Oh yeah, my brother was recommending it extremely. I haven’t obtained into it but.

Joseph: That one will I feel actually blow your thoughts. It really stars a man who’s type of a buddy to our store, which is Paul Bentany, who performs Imaginative and prescient within the Marvel franchise, who’s additionally a Brooklyn native. That present is absolutely out of this world, however Riverdale can be phenomenal.

Nathan: Attention-grabbing. So I discover it fascinating. You discuss Lute, however you haven’t talked in regards to the Fancy.

Joseph: Yep.

Nathan: Which you’re attempting to construct the subsequent Amazon in some ways there. How did that begin? I’m actually curious as a result of that’s huge, man.

Joseph: Yeah. So in whole now, in my profession, I feel Lute is my fourth startup. So all alongside the best way, there was type of the evolution of know-how mixed with the evolution of shopper behaviour. So the primary startup I used to be concerned with was referred to as Capital IQ. That’s an internet primarily based platform for monetary professionals to do higher work. In order that’s a giant mission involving information assortment and information cleansing, and finally some CRM performance. It’s type of a analysis software mixed with an actionable intelligence.

So the very first thing I used to be concerned with was structuring unstructured information for monetary professionals. Then after that, I did an organization referred to as Knowledgeable, which was a structuring unstructured information for media firms. The thought was that we did pure language processing. So whenever you would have a look at an article on a website like CNN, we’d hyperlink sure entities within the textual content like names of politicians. Barack Obama could possibly be linked up. Then whenever you had been to click on it, that might drive a topical web page round him. So it was like structuring unstructured information for finance after which structuring unstructured information for information and media and knowledge. Then the subsequent one with Fancy was round eCommerce.

There’s a lot of retail was transferring on-line. What may we do that might make the expertise extra native to digital however nonetheless seize a few of the magic from conventional retail? That’s really one thing … as a result of I take heed to and watch a number of Foundr content material. One factor I wished to say is that there’s type of a standard thread which is, once I take heed to the totally different superb individuals that you simply guys have on the present, the magic that comes with these initiatives. So it type of manifests itself in several methods, proper? To take an expertise that’s so easy and natural from actual life and translate that to one thing on digital, like making an fascinating sort of retail and commerce, the top expertise, finally there’s some magic there. Then it sort of takes on a lifetime of its personal.

What I might say about Lute is that that is the very first thing that I’ve been concerned with, and bear in mind that is very low tech. That is the very first thing I’ve been concerned with once I simply stroll within the door, activate the lights, and it’s obtained the magic. So I do know that everybody who’s attempting to do their very own factor, myself included, you’re at all times looking for the magic. I feel it begins with simply the core idea, which is you have got some … whether or not it’s excessive tech and one thing cool, eCommerce such as you had been speaking about, or it’s actually low tech and it’s simply the reverse, like a bodily retail expertise. What’s the spirit of what you’re attempting to do and the way does that come out in your work?

So in some ways, all these initiatives that I’ve been concerned with are pretty related. There’s this artistic spark, whether or not it could possibly be one thing as probably mundane as monetary data, however doing one thing radical with it, to structuring information for media firms. But when you concentrate on the top consumer and the way individuals may devour data and develop into smarter, that’s one thing to … developing with a distinct means for individuals to buy on-line after which finally to attempt to do one thing disruptive for younger individuals, there’s this factor occurring with leisure, digital leisure for kids, which is unbelievable however it’s additionally very totally different than our childhood. I don’t know. You’re not fairly as outdated as I’m, however the level being that, when you have this idea and it’s one thing that’s actual and true to you, you’ll be able to type of deliver it along with no matter assets you have got. That’s all that ever occurred with any of those startups.

I’ve observed it once I have a look at your group. Only a easy instance will probably be I’ll go into your man’s Instagram web page and I’ll see … I at all times prefer to look within the feedback to see what are individuals really doing. There’s all these nice influential individuals who speak or who share. Then there’s like nicely what do the individuals really do with it. Identical to a very easy factor I might say, I used to be it earlier this week, is usually the one factor that individuals have is their viewpoint. So utilizing free instruments which can be out there on the web … You might not be ready to open up a retailer proper now.

Really, it’s a very fascinating time due to COVID. Business actual property is definitely distressed. You could possibly deliver an thought … There’s a brand new idea of who your associate could possibly be. Your associate doesn’t essentially should be a enterprise capital agency. Possibly your associate could possibly be an individual who owns a constructing or who owns an area that wants assist and desires to do one thing for the group. However within the case of Foundr, what I am going on, what I noticed, is there’s individuals who simply say, hey come have a look at my web page. Whether or not it was really on Instagram or they had been saying go to Instagram and go hyperlink of their bio to go to their You Tube or no matter it was. They had been doing stuff like curating, not simply startup stuff, however life-style stuff.

There was artwork curators on there who would simply say … They didn’t have a web site. They didn’t have an app. They simply had their viewpoint, however they’re within the mentality of attempting obtained make stuff occur that type of goes together with your man’s model. So I feel that’s actually fascinating. Whereas once I joined this motion of startups 24 years in the past, the platforms and the instruments had been so necessary. Now everybody has entry to platforms and instruments to some extent. Actually there’s people who find themselves altering the sport and making platforms and instruments that I by no means even thought may exist earlier than, and that’s unbelievable. However now it looks as if the differentiator in a number of these instances is, nicely what’s your viewpoint. What are you bringing to the desk. A variety of that manifests itself by way of, nicely who’s standard in these totally different genres of media.

Once more, as a result of I’ve youngsters and since I’m very on this area, I pay a number of consideration to the leisure associated to gaming. There are these superb video games which I may have by no means imagined existed. There are these people who find themselves so gifted on the video games. Earlier than I am going any additional, do you play any video video games by any probability?

Nathan: I was a hardcore gamer. Used to play Counter Strike. Most likely the newest sport was Fortnight with my brother rather a lot, however not a lot anymore.

Joseph: Really, I hoped you’d say that. What occurred with Fortnight, which is absolutely fascinating, is that there’s all these dimensions to it. With younger individuals … That is earlier than COVID. Younger individuals would meet up afterschool on Fortnight. You’d get collectively. You may do a event collectively. You collaborate, you coordinate finally to assist one another. They really feel like they’re serving to one another. Typically they’ll carry any individual by way of the entire sport. However what I observed by way of Fortnight gamers is usually you can have people who find themselves actually good at this or actually good at that. I don’t know should you bear in mind whenever you had been taking part in it, when individuals are superb at constructing, all the sudden you have got people who find themselves constructing.

In a single second, they might construct a 4 story tour. Not solely are they making a protect for themselves, however they’re transferring up and down. It’s occurring at a velocity that’s uncanny. It’s unbelievable. I don’t know should you do not forget that. Now individuals are simply … So that you watch this … I assume you’re out of it and it’s in all probability good you’re out of it, as a result of it’s taken rather a lot away out of your productiveness in all probability. However once I have a look at the expertise that’s rising from this area, positive there’s individuals who have unbelievable stats, who win each event. Some are simply actually good at constructing, like I used to be saying, however a number of instances it’s their character and their viewpoint that’s bringing them to this degree of relatability and fame, and finally affect.

It’s been superb to see what they do with it. There have been so many individuals that I realized about by way of my youngsters, who’re so gifted in so some ways. Mainly sort of sport changers. These individuals like Mr. Beast.

Nathan: I used to be nearly to say what about Mr. Beast.

Joseph: By way of entrepreneurship, I checked out one thing that he did lately which was-

Nathan: The burgers?

Joseph: Properly, in fact, however I used to be really speaking about this puzzle event that he did, which was like … he launched a brand new digital puzzle and he made a contest which was, as quickly as you full the puzzle, take a photograph with it full. The primary one to finish it wins $100,000. One thing loopy, and any individual gained. You then attempt to reverse engineer the mathematics on it and it was like, wait a minute. His viewers is that this many individuals. I feel the puzzle was like $20-30. He might need netted a number of million {dollars} on the puzzle event.

To your level in regards to the burgers, he appears to be actually considerate about what he does with this unbelievable platform that he’s made. So huge image, what I’m saying and the primary factor that I wished to deliver up is that the one factor that all of us have and that’s distinctive to all of us is our perspective and our viewpoint. The best information for all of us is that we’re lastly at a time in civilization that there’s so many alternative assets out there to you to get your viewpoint throughout that, should you give attention to what issues to you and also you keep loyal to that concept, you can begin one thing up finally with potential minimal monetary assets, however fairly a little bit of effort and private … nicely, we at all times talked about sweat fairness.

So yeah, one mission … all these initiatives that I’ve been concerned with have at all times undoubtedly glad a curiosity for me. I at all times stated, man it will be cool if this was that. It will be cool if we may make one other Amazon or if we may make information extra informative and type of … not solely informative however probably unbiased and factual and issues like that. That was type of the concept with that. Positively on the time, once we had been doing finance, one of these organised information assortment and people sort of initiatives had been actually revolutionary in themselves. However I seen all of those initiatives that I’ve been concerned with on a sort of related path, on the same sort of airplane, which begins with an thought of one thing I wish to see on this planet, after which attempt to discover individuals in alignment of curiosity with myself and my colleagues. Then simply attempt to put it collectively.

Nathan: Hey guys, I hope you’re having fun with this episode and studying a tonne. As , on this collection, we interview a few of the best founders of our era to learn how they did it. Nonetheless, should you’re pondering of beginning your personal enterprise and also you wish to hear from some unbelievable tales from on a regular basis individuals such as you or I, who’re really within the trenches, solely been constructing a enterprise for possibly one 12 months or two years, like they’re constructing proper now, they usually’re solely within the early levels however they’re getting success, it’s best to come try our new podcast From Zero to Foundr, hosted by our group supervisor Molly Flynn.

These are within the trenches tales from our very personal profitable college students which have gone by way of a few of our programmes. Folks identical to you who’re deep throughout the means of constructing their very personal profitable enterprise. These are the founders of tomorrow. You could find the From Zero to Foundr podcast on all platforms. Bear in mind, it’s Foundr with out the E. All proper, now let’s bounce within the present.

Some fascinating takeaways there for me, I reside that you simply name them initiatives.

Joseph: Yeah.

Nathan: I feel that’s a very fascinating distinction as a result of, oftentimes, should you consider it as a mission, it actually is rather like a enjoyable experiment sort of. It’s a enterprise, however I’ve at all times considered these sort of issues as initiatives too, however lots of people don’t describe it that means which is absolutely cool. However in saying that, attempting to create the subsequent Amazon, like a platform, that’s no small fait.

Joseph: Proper.

Nathan: Any social platform may be very, very, very, very troublesome.

Joseph: Proper.

Nathan: I’m curious why create Lute when that should be taking over the vast majority of your time.

Joseph: Yeah, so I’m absolutely … for the final two years, I’m absolutely going Lute. I’m not working at some other firms. The explanation why is I’m at some extent in my life the place this specific mission … Bear in mind, pre COVID, I assumed that it was necessary to deliver one thing like this into the world as a result of, as a lot as I really like these leisure mediums we had been speaking about, I noticed how disruptive it was simply psychologically to younger individuals. Not simply my family, however simply because I’m round so many younger individuals, all of our mates. So what’s occurred due to COVID is that these tendencies have actually accelerated and I’ll provide you with a easy instance.

So typical younger particular person right here within the states, in some unspecified time in the future of their early … I might say between age 5 to 10 years outdated, they get their machine, normally like a pill. Most likely like an Android pill or one thing like that. I’m speaking about simply broadly. I’m not speaking about essentially wealthy individuals. I’m speaking about anyone. So that they get this pill and their households begin to make investments into the pill. So for Christmas and for all these different moments, they’re gifted experiences contained in the pill. So then you definately issue into the equation that totally different individuals reside in several conditions the place they may really feel like their neighbourhood isn’t protected to hang around outdoors in or to play outdoors in.

Then couple all of that with these type of addictive mechanics which can be concerned in these techniques that we love. Not simply the social platforms, however the video games and admittedly every part that is available in these platforms. Then whenever you throw all that within the combine within the pot with COVID, the place now they actually reside on these units, I really feel that it’s extra necessary then ever. So I assume, as a result of I began within the enterprise once I was younger, so I spent a number of time at every of those initiatives, I sort of get this sense like, after 20 some odd years within the trade, that it’s now or by no means. You’ve obtained to both do that factor that you simply wish to do or not.

Fortunately, I began this previous to COVID as a result of, once I began this firm or this comedian e book store for kids, the entire premise was no digital, no web site, no electronic mail tackle, nothing. We obtained going and folks sort of beloved it the place dad and mom, mothers and daughters and mothers and sons, would join and relate over, just like what you had been speaking about, your curiosity out of your childhood throughout to present leisure. It was working actually, very well. We expanded it to past only a lending library or studying library and a spot to hang around. We expanded it to type of an academic factor, artwork and different sort of experiences.

COVID hit in lower than a 12 months from once we opened. COVID hit and that was fairly surprising as a result of our complete premise was out the window, which isn’t any digital. Properly, no digital … Let’s overlook the half about, oh what’s going to occur if nobody comes into my retailer, which I do know that’s devastating to lots of people. However no digital means you’ll be able to’t attain these individuals that you simply had been attempting to impression. In order quickly as COVID hit, I feel in one of many first few days, what we began doing … I’ve some actually gifted individuals who work right here. We began doing free on-line classes, each reside and on demand that we may put up on Instagram, on like IGTV, as a result of IGTV you can do an hour lengthy factor. So one in every of our academics was simply doing the identical script that he was doing within the store, however now he was doing it on-line.

So we put up, in the course of the preliminary lockdown right here which was like 100 days straight, on daily basis together with weekends, one thing new there. Then we moved into on-line lessons, and we’ve on-line programmes which can be occurring proper now, and we’ve in retailer as nicely. All that to say that, in a means I really feel that it’s extra necessary than ever to attempt to observe by way of with this idea that was at all times nagging at me. My first firm, I used to be there for 5 to seven years, one thing like that. My second firm, 5 years. The third one, I used to be there for over 10 years. So we’re developing on 12 months two, or we’re within the second 12 months of this factor. I feel there’s an extended option to go by way of adapting to the change in individuals’s behaviour, which doesn’t look like it’s each going to return to what it was once we opened this place, that means how snug are households simply coming into an indoor area.

So in some unspecified time in the future in life, you’re engaged on a mission and one thing is reaching you and making you concentrate on transferring on to the subsequent mission. The place do you wish to impression individuals or the place do you wish to contribute to society earlier than we’re all gone. For me, as soon as I get going, I’m attempting to be loyal to it and keep it up for so long as it takes for it to completely be realised. So these sort of moments in between initiatives, they simply occur fairly naturally. If one thing’s been nagging at you for 20 years or because you had been a child, and issues fall into place the place the placement of my store is on high of a restaurant that’s owned by some individuals I’ve identified for like 20 years. Unimaginable entrepreneurs. The man was a chef at a very cool restaurant in New York Metropolis. Subsequent factor I do know, he opened up a bunch of eating places on his personal along with his companions they usually’re so necessary to individuals in the entire metropolis. Not even simply on this neighbourhood.

So an opportunity assembly with him the place he stated that he appreciated the concept and he can be supportive to make this even occur, that we’d actually have a place to do that in, is what was a spark that allowed me to do that. So it’s type of like the celebs being aligned, after which additionally simply conviction. I do know that everyone has totally different means and assets at any given second, however when you have conviction and you’ve got a viewpoint, I feel that it’s a good time to get stuff off the bottom and transfer on from no matter superb productive mission that you simply’re in to the subsequent degree.

Nathan: Yeah, I really like that. I really like the tackle viewpoint as a result of I feel it’s so true. Now we have to work in direction of wrapping up, however it seems like you might be very and see this creator economic system and motion forming, as am I, as are we at Foundr. A lot to the purpose that I wish to begin shining rather a lot and highlight on a few of these creators just like the Mr. Beasts of the world as a result of it’s fascinating what’s going on proper now.

Joseph: Yeah. So let me provide you with some suggestions. I’m fully aligned with you right here. What we’ve been doing with Lute is, when the youngsters began creating their very own content material right here, we arrange a market so that children may collaborate and finally promote their items. So promoting comics. Then we did this contest the place the youngsters designed … this was the right exercise for COVID. The children designed superheros, their very own characters, after which we really labored with an outstanding artist who really made the motion figures for them. So this rising period of the creator economic system is completely thoughts blowing to me, and I really assume what you guys have been doing with Foundr in a means is so far … pre no matter you’re going to do with the Mr. Beasts of the world, that are obligatory. However so far, whenever you speak to outdated individuals like me, is we’re all type of the outdated creator economic system, which is we use what platforms had been out there to us.

Simply actually importantly, I wished to remind you of once I obtained began in know-how. My first firm, issues like Microsoft SQL server and Oracles database, issues weren’t working correctly. So I bear in mind calling up Oracle or calling up Microsoft at 3:00 within the morning and saying, “Hey, database replication doesn’t work.” They’d say, “Yeah, we all know. Should you determine it out, tell us. There’s a bounty. We’ll publish it on.” So, that was at a time when these platforms had been rising. Now that the platforms are so sturdy, it’s completely all in regards to the creators. I feel that we’re going to see. There’s a few of these creators right here which can be so standard. You’ve already seen what they’re doing shaking up issues just like the inventory market the place individuals are saying, “Hey, I’ve executed some analysis and we are able to band collectively, and we are able to have an effect on world monetary markets.” That’s loopy, proper?

A few of these different character’s personalities and abilities, individuals are speaking about them as politicians. I’ll provide you with an instance of 1 that basically impressed me, caught my eye, the man from Barstool.

Nathan: Yeah. I used to be nearly to say him. Yeah, Dave Portnoy.

Joseph: Should you haven’t had him on already, he’s obtained to be on right here as a result of what he did with the Barstool fund was so radical. He took what Mr. Beast and others are doing, and I feel all of them contributed to him as a result of they noticed what he was doing, and he took it to an entire different world. So he’s an ideal instance of everyone seems to be totally different by way of their character and type of their type of sense of humour. Everyone seems to be totally different in fact of their politics, however what did he do along with his platform is he created this Barstool fund. Final time I checked, over $30 million had been contributed. On daily basis, he calls up small companies and he says, “What do you want? It’s coming. We’re going that can assist you.” That wasn’t capable of be executed in our personal authorities.

So the rationale why I’m mentioning it’s on daily basis individuals discuss individuals like him as being any individual who could possibly be in politics. So all the sudden, the creator people, they’re an important entertainers. They’re mainly up there with Lebron James already, which is superb. They’ve such an impression on younger individuals and such an affect, and infrequently actually constructive one. Now we’re speaking about within the political sphere or within the finance sphere. So we’re attempting to try this with Lute. You’ve obtained to understand that our continuants are actually rather a lot youthful, however I’ll inform you this. The expertise that I’ve seen in artwork and in writing, and in type of entrepreneurship right here, I’m actually sure that there will probably be artistic expertise from this youthful era that can exceed every part we’ve seen. They may disrupt Marvel. It gained’t be me sadly. It gained’t be you.

There’s a child in right here lately. I inform this story rather a lot as a result of it blows my thoughts. He was speaking about how a lot he loves Lute as a result of he’s going to showcase his work right here and he’s going to develop into well-known at some point. He’s going to be any individual within the trade. I stated to him, “That’s nice. I hope so.” “The truth is we’re going to hitch a journey in your star since you’re so gifted and also you’re so artistic, and also you’re so particular that mainly you’re going to actually change the world, and we’ll have been fortunate to even know you.” That’s type of what we’re seeing with the creator economic system. It’s a part of the inspiration why I’m so positive that I wish to maintain at this, is to attempt to proceed to develop expertise like that.

Nathan: Yeah. That’s superb. There’s definitively a motion going down that we’re noticing as nicely, which I hope that we may be part of fueling. So look, Joe, tremendous aware of your time. We’ve already gone over. This can be a nice dialog. Actually loved chatting with you and connecting.

Joseph: Likewise.

Nathan: Only one final query. Any remaining phrases of knowledge that you simply’d prefer to share with our viewers?

Joseph: Certain. It’s in all probability the cheesiest factor. I’ve heard it 1,000,000 instances, however given every part occurring on this planet, the one factor that has resonated with me that truly labored is when the tremendous well-known entrepreneurs who inform me by no means surrender. Everybody at all times offers up as a result of it’s so laborious. It’s not laborious to precise your self and share your viewpoint. It’s laborious simply getting by way of life. There’s individuals who have well being points, psychological points, psychological well being points. Folks have actual issues and I perceive that. So if there’s a option to cling on a little bit bit longer, then your probabilities of breaking by way of are going up exponentially the longer that you simply cling on.

Alongside the best way, there have been individuals who … I might at all times ask, how did you break the ruler. How did your platform get so many customers, or no matter it was. They stated, firstly, there was nothing. It was powerful. Typically it takes two years earlier than something occurs. So I do know that it sounds sort of tacky to say, however I do imagine that you simply’ve obtained to attempt to by no means surrender and also you’ve obtained to attempt to keep at it. I feel, should you do this, then good issues can occur to good individuals as nicely.

Nathan: Find it irresistible. Superior, man. The place’s the very best place individuals can discover out extra about your self and your work as nicely?

Joseph: Yeah, at this level, I might say on Instagram. The deal with is Loot, L-O-O-T. That hyperlinks again to every part else. In any other case, on Foundr.

Nathan: Superior. Thanks a lot on your time, man. I hope you have got a improbable day. Actually respect it.

Joseph: You too. Thanks for the time.





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