Have you wondered how national accounts or program work might be able to impact your business? If you’re a residential or commercial services provider this type of work can fundamentally change your organization and bring in revenue that was never possible. Or maybe you’re wondering what it is and how to use it.
Our guest today is Mike Stone, and he shares with us how CertaPro has grown through the years, some of their best practices, and how national account work is impacting their organization.
TODAY’S WIN-WIN:
Franchisee’s keep the majority of their revenue in their local community.
LINKS FROM THE EPISODE:
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Mike is the President and CEO of CertaPro Painters, renowned as the largest painting company in North America. With 370 owners operating 500 territories across the United States and Canada, CertaPro is a leader in the residential and commercial painting space.
CertaPro successfully hit a return target of $700M+ in 2022 and is now eyeing projected annual revenues worth $1B+ for the near future. Each franchisee in the company’s widespread network is turning over an average revenue of $2,108,179, with the scope of even greater profit in view of the business’ expansion activities.
ABOUT BIG SKY FRANCHISE TEAM:
This episode is powered by Big Sky Franchise Team. If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no-obligation, franchise consultation online at: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/ or by calling Big Sky Franchise Team at: 855-824-4759.
If you are interested in being a guest on our podcast, please complete this request form or email podcast@bigskyfranchise.com and a team member will be in touch.
TRANSCRIPTION:
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:01):
Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast, where each week, we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I’m your host, Tom DuFore, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team, and as we open today, I’m wondering if you have ever thought about adding national accounts or program work into your business and how that might be able to impact your business. Whether you’re maybe a residential or a commercial services provider, this type of work can fundamentally change your organization and bring in revenue and income potential that was never possible before. Or maybe you’re just wondering, “What in the world is program work or national account work? How might I even do that?” Well, our guest today is Mike Stone, and he shares with us how CertaPro has grown over the years, some best practices, and how national account work is impacting their business.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (00:58):
Now, Mike is the president and CEO of CertaPro Painters, renowned as the largest painting company in North America. With 370 owners operating 500 territories across the US and Canada, CertaPro is a leader in the residential and commercial painting space. CertaPro successfully hit a return target of over $700 million in revenue and is now eyeing projected annual revenues to exceed $1 billion in the very near future. You’re going to love my interview with Mike, and as you’ll find out in the episode, he and I have a common connection that we both worked with, which was a pretty fun and interesting connection point that we didn’t know until our interview here. So let’s go ahead and jump right into our interview.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (01:44):
Yeah. Mike Stone, president and CEO CertaPro Painters, North America’s largest and most successful painting franchise concept.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (01:54):
Wonderful. Well, thanks so much for being here. One of the things I find fascinating in preparing for our interview is your journey with CertaPro. Going from salesman to CEO is a big journey. You’ve been there for a long time, so I’d just love for you to share a little bit of that backstory with us.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (02:13):
Yeah. This is the start of my 25th year. I joined CertaPro in 1999. An old college friend of mine started one of the pioneering CertaPro’s out in San Diego, and I was working for a custom home builder in Chicago. Two brutal winters in Chicago, was not great, and a buddy of mine that I went to college with, was a roommate, said, “Hey, I’m moving to San Diego,” and I needed a fresh start. And so I moved out to San Diego with him and he’s like, “Look, I’m going to start this painting business.” And he ran a successful painting business in college, said, “That’s great. I’m just coming to San Diego for the weather.” Six months later he said, “Hey, I think my business would run a heck of a lot better if you managed all the sales and marketing, and I managed all the production and the finances and the operations.” And lo and behold, he convinced me to join the team.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (03:04):
I was working in hospitality, a lot of holidays, a lot of nights, a lot of weekends, and looking for that opportunity. And we became one of the very first to cross over a million dollars. It was only a $50 million company when I joined, all the franchises combined. So that’s kind of how I got involved in the business and I worked in that business. We had a ton of success, and met my wife Kim. She was a traveling nurse in San Diego and we had just gotten married and had our first son, Kyle, and she really wanted to raise kids near family. She had, all of her family is back in Philadelphia and I had some family on the East Coast as well. And so I went and joined the corporate team after three very, four successful years working with Dan Hutchins. Have probably had every role, training new franchisees, helping as a general manager of operations, started the first marketing co-ops, took over a regional vice president and a good friend of mine had a great opportunity.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (04:04):
Anthony Jalid, he was the West Coast regional VP, and he got an opportunity and so I ran the East division and the West division. They gave me all of operations. And seven years ago, they said, “Take us to a billion dollars, Mike.” We were about a $300 million company, and here we are, seven years later, $700 million knocking on the doorstep. We see a path towards 200,000 happy customers, which represents a billion dollars in painting.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (04:31):
Thanks for sharing that. And we connected here pre-recording a little bit on common connection with Anthony there and a mutual friend and contact there. So always a small world when we make those connections. You’re talking about the growth since you’ve taken over, where you’ve come to and where you’re going. And when I think of growth at the size of organization you are is this concept of national accounts or house accounts, sometimes they’re referred to as various names that they’re given to, and how that helps support the franchisee-franchise network. I’d love for you to share just a little insight into that.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (05:05):
Well, first off, every franchisee is focused on residential, interior and exterior painting in their market. They get an exclusive territory to do that based on zip codes, demographics. Once they’ve learned how to do that, they get a commercial license, which is a little bit more complicated painting, higher scale, and there’s no territory restrictions on that, but they get trained on how to do bigger projects, HOAs, strip malls, warehouses, things like that. Overlaying on top of that, we have a national sales team that has four people strategically placed across the country, and those are our strategic account managers. And their job is to build relationships to create program work. And that is carved out separately than your local commercial.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (05:56):
Program work like painting for Rite Aid or Home Depot or Jiffy Lube or Walmart or Labcorp. These are all clients that are national accounts. Program goes out, solicits, builds a relationship and says, “Hey, you have 400 units that you need to re-image and paint. We are the only national footprint in US and Canada that can actually paint all of them the exact same way with consistency, consistency of pricing, quality, and it’s distributed through our franchise network.”
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (06:28):
So one of our account managers would land a, let’s say it’s a $4 million project with Rite Aid, and then local fulfillment, the Rite Aids in your territory, you would paint those as the local franchise owner. Those would be, I wouldn’t say gifted to you, but you would have to meet certain quality standards and then you would be awarded those projects like a 28, three $28,000 Rite Aids. You would just win because you’re a part of CertiPro and then you would produce them and pay royalty on them as you would any of your other projects. So that’s kind of how local execution is, fulfillment on national programming. And when we are operating in 500 territories across the US and Canada with 370-ish franchise owners, I mean, we really do have a footprint that can service any national program.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (07:23):
That makes a ton of sense, and especially for the customer you’re serving to know that the person that’s performing the work locally, they’re all trained in the same way. They’re all wearing the same shirts and the same processes and systems. I’m sure there’s a big benefit there.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (07:39):
There’s a lot of misconceptions about franchising. Franchises are locally owned businesses who are making an impact in the community, and over 92 cents out of every dollar stays in the community. A couple percent goes into a general advertising fund. The other 5% goes to our royalty collection. So the reality of what a franchise owner represents is local community. It’s not Starbucks, it’s not Walmart, it’s not Target, these big corporations. These are locally owned businesses, and sometimes franchising gets a bad name because people don’t really understand that these people are making a true impact. And to be frank, our very best franchise owners, they are rooted in the community. They’re sponsoring little league teams. They’re giving back with social purpose and donating to charities and painting things that the community needs to make it a more beautiful and attractive place. And that’s the beauty of painting in itself. You take something that’s dull and lifeless and you make it beautiful again and it’s the most cost-effective way to beautify and protect someone’s home or business.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (08:49):
One of the things that I find interesting when we think of painting and just in general, it tends to be a fragmented industry nationally. I’d love for you to maybe share a little insight into growing, because you’ve been involved with the company for 25 years now, on growing this national organization, this national footprint in a highly fragmented business.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (09:12):
Yeah. You’ve talked to Sherwin Williams. They sell $20 billion worth of coatings, right? In the repaint space, the space that we thrive in, a typical painter buys about $10,000 worth of paint a year from Sherwin Williams. $60 billion is our footprint that we chase, and we own 700 million, so we have less than 2% market share. So there’s 5,000 Sherwin Williams stores, and each one has, I don’t know, 20 to 50 accounts that are buying 10 to $20,000 worth of paint. CertaPro, what we’re trying to do is we give somebody a business model. We don’t want you to have any painting experience. We’ll teach you everything you need to know about the painting industry. That’s our religion. This is a people business, this is a leadership business. We’re about big profitable operations that are growing and achieving consistent market penetration by delivering an extraordinary experience to the customer.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (10:13):
Most painters, they grew up in the trades, and we employ a lot of those people who swing a brush every day. And we’re looking for mid-level managers, maybe a Fortune 500 company had a layoff and somebody wants to take control of their life and not be part of the conglomerate of people buying up other companies and really taking an entrepreneurial perspective on running a very successful business. And now if you look at our Item 19, which shows our productivity, a typical CertaPro franchise owner does about $2.1 million in sales on an annual basis, which is really remarkable.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (10:52):
You’ve alluded and described some of these things, but how do you help get a franchisee that’s maybe starting out from zero to that $2 million marker on average?
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (11:03):
Probably the biggest win I’ve had as a leader at CertaPro is I worked with a lot of franchise owners early in my career who were further ahead than most of the others. And so what we did is we started looking at what are the markers with that franchise or this franchise or this lighthouse franchise? And what we did is we developed a road map or a blueprint on actually how to build a big profitable painting business. What are the leadership skills necessary? How much residential business should you go after? How much commercial? What does the organizational infrastructure look like? How many salespeople, how many operations people, how many production people? What do you do with marketing? How’s the back office going to be run? And so what we have created that has really served our CertaPro franchise owner as well is not only do you get state-of-the-art technology and a business in a box and an in-house ad agency in full marketing and co-op support.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (11:59):
What you get is business consultant support that shows you step-by-step how to go from zero really to seven and a half million. That’s the end of our path. It used to be 3 million, but so many people blew past 3 million. If your average productivity is at 2-1, then now the new path is zero to seven and a half. And we know exactly what it looks like, how to do it. That’s pretty attractive when you’re buying a business because starting from scratch and investing two and a half, $250,000 and you can build it up to a seven and a half million-dollar business in less than 10 years is pretty darn appealing.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (12:36):
And every year, we do 20 to 30 resales, and so we know how to do something better than any of our competitors can do is we know how to make sure that you get to realize the equity you’ve built. Whether you sell it to somebody outside or you sell it to your staff or you sell it to us at corporate because we have a few company-owned locations, and we’ll start leveraging a really successful business, how to scale it even further because the fragmentation is so significant, even in every market where we dominate.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (13:07):
I love the analysis you did on the industry to help figure out the pathway to grow from starting up the local franchise to growing and today what you described, that over $7 million pathway that you have laid out for a franchisee to follow. One of the things you mentioned in conversation was about building this culture, and one of the things I always find interesting is for franchise systems in particular, because the owners, the franchisees are independent owners all working with a common system and a common brand. So how have you been able to build values, organizational values within the franchise system, And how have you seen that work with CertaPro?
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (13:51):
Well, our core values is our secret sauce. Honestly, it’s not the software, it’s not the business model. Those are certainly really, really good tools. But when you call and talk to our franchise owners, it’s all about validation. “Hey, can I be successful doing this?” And what we interview for is we don’t say yes. We say no to at least 50% of the people who want to buy a franchise. To be very clear, we’re very particular about people who deliver on their promises, have pride in what they do, practice continuous improvement, respect the individual, and embrace the possibilities. Those aren’t just words, those are the behaviors. That’s the DNA of our culture. That’s how you create a workplace of choice. That’s how you attract a talent.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (14:39):
So every time we meet with franchise owners, every conference, every meeting, we’re talking about our core values, we’re showing examples of how they are lived and amplified so other people continue to perpetuate those core values. So it is all about who we are. Frankly, that’s how I want to raise my three kids, Kyle, Casey, and Luke, is I bump every decision I make as a leader and a father and a husband against those core values. I mean, I think they resonate, and if they resonate with you as a prospect when you’re looking to buy a business, then you know that you’re going to find CertaPro probably to be a pretty good home for you as an entrepreneur and a business owner.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (15:20):
Speaking of growing a system, a lot of the folks who will tune into our podcast over time and may listen to this episode are emerging franchisors, and they’re going in and they see the CEO of CertaPro is on, I might be able to learn something here. So I always like to ask for someone in your role and position, to an emerging franchisor, what advice might you give to them to grow to maybe their first 25 or first 100 franchises?
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (15:47):
Well, I’ll give two bits of advice. One, when you’re starting out as a franchisor, you want to cut a deal just to get somebody to start, and then you’ll cut a different deal on a different deal and maybe make this territory different than this one. So the first thing I would say is be consistent. Everyone wants the world in terms of geography and territory, and yet most businesses need, even our existing CertaPros, they probably only need half the territory. It’s interesting, when you focus in a tighter area, you can have more success. You can market more aggressively, you can market digitally better. Your footprint between your house and your office, that’s where we tend to do the most work. So most franchisors that are starting out I think give away too much, and it causes a lot of angst later on, and you have to have a lot of discipline not to do that. That would be my first bit of advice.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (16:41):
And then just be super consistent at whatever your core values, I shared mine with you. If somebody, it makes it very easy to spit somebody out who doesn’t live the core values at CertaPro. If we’re not aligned on that, they got to go. They can’t be franchise owners. We’ll create a path where they can exit with honor, but that is the backbone of our brand. So for a founder or a CEO or somebody as an emerging leader, be vigilant in holding the line on your core values, whatever they may be. Whatever is the essence of the DNA of the brand that you’ve created, don’t waver on that. Be true to that, because when you don’t, then you start setting these exceptions, you operate in all these shades of gray, and it’ll come back downstream and bite you. And 32 years, this business has been around. The founders were really good about keeping our core values front and center, and I think I’ve tried to live and do that myself, and we’ve had a lot of success because of that, and it’s really served our culture well too.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (17:47):
Wonderful. Thanks for sharing. Well, Mike, this is a time in the episode where we like to ask every guest the same four questions before they go. And the first question we always like to ask is, have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (18:02):
Technology plays such a huge role today. When I became the president, CEO, I focused on, my background was operations and marketing. And so I, my biggest miss was I didn’t bring in a really forward-thinking CIO. We were growing so much faster than our technology allowed because our industry was so fragmented. We had a lot of success, but we did not invest enough in the technology. I’m catching up on that now. I’ve brought in a great CIO, Dean Riviera. He’s done a lot of great work in less than a year, and that was a miss. I should have invested in technology and strategic leadership in technology.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (18:55):
Years earlier, I would be further along as a brand had I listened better around that and not tried to, I don’t know, skimp is the best way to describe it. I just didn’t have a very forward-thinking leader who understood that space. And really good people working, but were not forward-thinking enough. And hindsight, being 2020, that was probably the biggest miss of my leadership career, was not making and moving fast enough when it comes to tech. And tech leadership more than the technology, because we made some bad mistakes and it set us back a couple of years and millions of dollars.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (19:31):
Great. Well, thank you for sharing. And let’s talk about a make. Let’s look at the other side, a make, a highlight or two you’d like to share.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (19:38):
Well, there’s two that come to mind. I talked about the path, the road map or blueprint that we were able to develop and that allowed our franchise owners to run big profitable businesses faster than ever before. And they started following the execution on that, so that was a big win. The other big win was we launched marketing cooperatives in 2006, and the ability in a market like Philadelphia where I live, there’s like, 16 franchise owners, so they get to amplify their local marketing dollar. So if somebody invests $50,000 into their co-op, but there’s 15 other that invests $50,000, now they have $750,000 to market to build the brand. There’s no painter that can do that in our market.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (20:21):
So we have, in every major DMA, we’ve been able to elevate the brand of CertaPro in a way that our competitors just can’t. And that’s been probably one of the biggest successes. And it also draws more talent to work in these franchise owners businesses because people know who you are. I mean, we advertise with the Yankees and the Flyers and the Brewers and the Astros and the Utah Jazz and tons of national iconic brands in these markets because of our co-ops.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (20:52):
Certainly one of the great benefits of a franchise system and being able to be a part of that. An independent is not going to have that opportunity. Let’s talk about a multiplier that you’ve used maybe to grow yourself personally or professionally, maybe even the company.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (21:09):
Well, there’s two multipliers that I think have really served our brand well. One, we have a robust leadership development program, so everyone on the corporate team and franchise owners have the opportunity to get real substantive skill development, whether it’s goal setting and review, business coaching, or how to run effective meetings, situational leadership, problem-solving, conflict resolution. These are all leadership classes that we give written feedback, certifications, and people can become examiners in these leadership skills. And that’s proprietary stuff that you get with our brand. So I leaned in on that early in my career, and it’s certainly served me well as my journey from salesperson to CDO. That’s probably been probably one of the greatest assets this brand has given me. Another one that really changed the game is for 25 years, we were a marketing and lead generation company.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (22:13):
And actually when I became president of the company, I stood on stage and I’m a basketball player, and I had one of the audience members throw a basketball up to me, and I planted my foot and I said, “We’re going to pivot as a brand, and I’m in the triple threat position. You can shoot, you can dribble, you can pass. We’re going to pivot as a brand and focus on not the customer, we’re going to focus on delivering an extraordinary experience to our people. To our painters, to the 1,450 associates that work for our franchise owners, the 500 franchise units and the 85 corporate staff members. If we focus on our people and try and create an environment or a workplace that they love to be a part of, then they in turn will take care of our customers.”
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (23:00):
And our net promoter scores went through the roof, we have more capacity. So in a world where everyone needs more labor, we don’t have that as a problem. People want to work for CertaPro. And so that was probably the other multiplier that’s probably going to propel us to multi-billions downstream because I think we continue to attract day talent that want to work in these businesses, enjoy our core values, and see that the brand is a fun place and a great opportunity.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (23:27):
Well, Mike, the final question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you?
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (23:32):
We have an equilateral triangle that has strategic anchors. One is financial success, one is market share growth, and one is extraordinary brand experience. Every one of those has to be done well. If you make a lot of money but don’t grow, that’s no good. If you deliver great experience, but don’t make any money, that doesn’t do any good. I think it starts with making sure your franchise owners make money and grow their business and take great care of their people. If they do all three of those things well, in an industry where we own less than 2% market share, the sky’s the limit for what any of these businesses can do.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (24:06):
Look, when I started out in this business, a million dollars was a lot for a franchise owner to contemplate. We have franchise owners approaching $20 million this year, and they have visions, to be clear, one franchise owner as a vision of a hundred million dollar business, another of a $50 million business. So we’ve changed the paradigm on what’s possible. And what does it mean to me? All that leads to I think hundreds of thousands of happy customers, raving fans who go out and talk and tell their friends and family about the experience they had with CertaPro Painters.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (24:42):
Wonderful. Well, speaking of CertaPro, friends, customers, people who are tuning into this may say, “Well, I really liked Mike. What a great interview. How can I learn more about CertaPro?” Maybe interested in learning more to be a franchisee or even having some work done at their own home or a business they’re operating.
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (25:00):
CertaPro.com, right? That’s it. www.CertaPro.com. There’s a link to the franchise opportunities page, career pages. If you’re interested in working in a CertaPro, whether it’s, or a painter or a sales associate, or you want to just get an estimate to have somebody do some work in your home or business, that’s where it all starts.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (25:21):
And Mike, as we bring this to a close, is there anything you were hoping to share or get across that you haven’t had a chance to yet?
Mike Stone, CertaPro Painters (25:27):
Rare, if ever in your life, do you get the opportunity to be a part of the largest player in your space, yet we only own 2% market share. So to be the most dominant player and have a runway of opportunity that’s really unprecedented in an industry that is not going to get gobbled up by robots or anything like that, the painting industry is a widget of massive wealth creation, incredible fragmentation. I would say come join the very best and brightest, and really the sky’s the limit for you as an individual.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (26:00):
Mike, thank you so much for a fantastic interview. And I loved finding out our common connection there with our friend Anthony. So let’s go ahead and jump into today’s three key takeaways. Takeaway number one is national accounts or program work, and he talked about how his national accounts with their four strategic account executives are able to produce revenue for the franchise system and for each individual franchisees through these larger or national businesses or commercial services accounts that become available to franchisees in the network. And I think it’s a great takeaway because if you’re in the home services or commercial services, any kind of industry where there might be this program or national account work, I think CertaPro is a great example for you to follow to see how you can support your network or at least show you that it’s possible.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (26:55):
Takeaway number two is when he talked about how he helped franchisees figure out how to get over that $1 million a year revenue. And what they did was they looked at the franchisees that came into the system and went from zero to exceeding a million dollars, and worked backwards to say, “What did they do? How did they do that?” And now in today’s world, they’ve had to keep upping that number in threshold as a key driver for the company. And he said they’re now focused on growing franchisees to $7.5 million a year in revenue. So I thought that was a really, really interesting and exciting approach and something that franchisors can learn from him there.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (27:37):
Takeaway number three is the advice that he gave to emerging franchisors. I thought it was great. I took away two or three consistent or three takeaways here, three mini ones. Number one is sometimes you’ve got to cut a deal or take into consideration some alternative negotiations when you’re first starting. The second little one here is just try to do your best to be consistent with territory if you can, and franchisees want more, and oftentimes, those franchisees can work well with less. The third one that he said is just be vigilant with your core values. I really liked his emphasis on that, and that’s something that he mentioned for Certipro in growing their business and helping them to be successful. And now it’s time for today’s win-win.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (28:25):
So today’s win-win is when Mike talked about a common misconception with franchising and the small business and the local community. And he said, and I think this is a point that’s well taken that goes missed by many, especially as a general consumers, we’re all consumers generally every month at the very least, sometimes weekly or daily, we’re patronizing franchise-owned establishment. But he said, “In their system, 92% of all the revenue generated by a franchisee stays in that community,” meaning that local owner, it stays there. Their royalties and marketing fees and such come out, but the rest stays. And as a reminder, it’s locally owned and operated.
Dr. Tom DuFore, Big Sky Franchise Team (29:09):
Their franchisees are sponsoring little league teams and sponsoring other schools and football teams and community events going on in their area. So for me, it’s just a great win-win because it’s a reminder that franchisees, as your system grows, are able to benefit from a regional or national brand over time, and from having a proven system all the while having a local owner who cares right next to them. So that’s the episode today, folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember, if you or anyone might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us at BigSkyFranchiseTeam.com. Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you back next week.