Kylie Minogue is still only five feet tall but, in many ways, she’s never been bigger.
In the six years since BMG have been releasing her music, she’s had three No.1 studio albums: Golden (2018, 400,000+ global units), Disco (2020, 750,000+) and Tension (2023, 500,000 and still rising).
Last year, Padam Padam became her first Top 10 UK single in a dozen years. She won a Grammy, the BRIT Awards Global Icon gong and became a hit on TikTok, while America – where her last pre-BMG album reached the giddy heights of No.184 – is now her biggest streaming market.
Alistair Norbury – BMG UK President, Repertoire & Marketing, and a man whose penchant for flamboyant shirts masks his considered, under-the-radar approach to running a huge music company – would never take credit for such successes, of course.
“The way Jamie Nelson [BMG VP, A&R, Recorded Music] and Anna Darbyshire [Senior Director – Marketing, New Recordings] work together with the artist and management has created this success,” he says, modestly.
“The partnership with Kylie and her management team [Polly Bhowmik and Alli Main of A&P Artist Management and Gemma Reilly-Hammond of Quietus] has been such a natural evolution from the start.”
But it can’t just be coincidence that established artists signed to BMG seem to enjoy a new lease of life they can’t find elsewhere. From Rick Astley to Suede, from Dido to Blondie, and from Gary Numan to Louis Tomlinson, BMG has assisted more comebacks than Lazarus.
Blondie
This year alone, it has released Top 10 UK albums from resurgent artists as varied as Bruce Dickinson, Travis, Will Young, Soft Play and The Script, to name but a few, while its publishing successes include everyone from the Rolling Stones to Bring Me The Horizon, Mura Masa to Nick Cave and English Teacher to the Manic Street Preachers.
And now, it’s BMG’s own turn for a bit of a reboot. Norbury was brought into the company from the management world by Hartwig Masuch (“I owe my role at BMG to Hartwig”), who led the new BMG from its launch in 2008 until last year, establishing the publishing-plus-records powerhouse as a formidable, artist/songwriter-friendly thorn in the side of the majors, surging from a standing start to become the number four music company behind the big three.
Since taking over last year, however, new CEO Thomas Coesfeld has made sweeping changes. He switched from third-party digital distribution to go direct with the biggest DSPs, and moved BMG’s physical distribution from ADA to Universal.
He scrapped the company’s forays into films and live music to concentrate on the core business. And he made lay-offs in pursuit of the ‘flatter structure’ that has since become an industry buzz-phrase.
Some of those moves hurt, but they also seem to be working, with BMG’s H1 figures showing growth above the market average, while also revealing the company has quietly invested €900 million in acquisitions since 2021.
Norbury hints there are further big moves to come, and while there have been some high-profile departures of late, his own role is expanding, as he takes on responsibility for the APAC region and, on an interim basis for now, Continental Europe.
As Norbury welcomes MBW into BMG’s Paddington office for a long-awaited interview, he’s clearly relishing the new responsibilities, enthusing about the wealth of talent (both artistic and executive) in those regions, as well as the improved international opportunities for UK artists. Because, like Kylie, Alistair Norbury has his sights set on new heights…
When you first signed Kylie, did you expect her to have this degree of success?
Padam Padam was not envisaged. That was definitely wildest-dreams territory. But we felt the combination of Jamie Nelson and Kylie, from an A&R creative perspective, would always deliver, and has always delivered, great success.
“Padam Padam was not envisaged. That was definitely wildest dreams territory.”
When you look at the tour that is now planned, the Vegas residency, the Grammy, the streaming and the artists who are leaning in…Jamie would say when we did Golden and were looking for features and opportunities, it was harder. Now, the collaborations and features are absolutely world class.
The thing Kylie’s done better than any other artist is develop a career by keeping her own sense of identity. Just being at Hyde Park, seeing the range of audience and the diversity of the demographic… A live audience really gives you a sense of what’s been achieved over the last six years.
Is that something that can be done for anyone?
In Kylie’s case, it’s clearly gone into a particularly stratospheric space, but if you look at some of the other examples where we have given artists on the label side the best chart result they’ve had for many years, the best international results they’ve had for many years – the reaction we get from artists is that this feels as good, if not better, than first time around because they’re in control, they’re enjoying it more and they’re feeling respected.
Suede
I’m particularly proud of the success of Suede. We’d always been Suede’s music publisher and we’d always wanted to be the label. So, when Autofiction came to us, we were determined to make it feel as exciting as the debut Suede record and it’s so encouraging to hear Brett Anderson say from the stage that this is the best Suede album they’ve ever made.
So what’s BMG’s secret?
Number one, and it sounds obvious, make a great album. In the early days of the new BMG, we were very much artist services: you delivered a record, we released it for you.
Under Korda [Marshall, former BMG SVP] and now Jamie, the A&R element is very important. With all of the examples we could look at, the records are very good – but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re going to be successful.
The second element, in almost every example, is they have great management. The partnership between the label and the artist manager is so integral.
And the third element is the excitement and determination coming from the artist themselves. If it’s, ‘We’re going on tour, we should put a record out to support the tour’, that’s OK, but it’s not being driven by the music. I’ve had artists in here who’ve said, ‘This feels like the first roll of the dice’, even though it’s many years later.
What BMG hasn’t really done, however, is break an artist from the ground up. Does that matter?
What’s clear is that BMG UK, as a label, is Radio 2 and 6 Music. Our strategy on recorded music in the UK is to continue with the very best iconic artists, and a small, focused roster of new talent.
But the joy of music publishing is, we’ve got English Teacher, Mura Masa, CMAT… When people say BMG don’t break or develop acts, well, that’s what we’re doing in the music publishing space with Hugo Turquet [SVP, A&R, Publishing] and Lisa Cullington [VP, Creative] under the leadership of Janet Anderson [SVP, Group Publishing Operations].
That’s where talent development is happening at BMG and we don’t talk about that enough.
Music publishing is still two thirds of our revenue. I guess records are more visible and people are more vocal about it, but one of the things we want to do is develop something in publishing and move it onto the label. That’s something you will see happening, because the alignment between the two teams is greater than ever.
And what people don’t know is all the [catalogue] acquisitions we’ve done that we don’t talk about. With a lot of the acquisitions we’ve done over the last five years, we’ve agreed with the seller that they are classified.
Is it harder to do those deals now you’re up against venture capitalists?
The problem is, we’ve seen a lot of overheated deals that have inflated prices and it’s very hard then to say to somebody, ‘This is what your catalogue is worth’, because they’re like, ‘Well, so-and-so got that much’.
If you’re selling a portion of your catalogue, but you’re still going to be out there performing and releasing new music, it’s important you have a company that’s a proper publisher or label. We will always curate and look after your legacy better than a fund will do, because we know how to administer songs and release recordings.
Would you like to have more acts signed for both records and publishing?
The balance is good. What we’ve never done is pressurise or make anything contingent on one or the other.
I enjoy the fact that lots of our writers are signed to other labels. Since Thomas took over, you’re seeing more engagement with the industry. Our communication historically was a little bit, ‘We’re out on our own, BMG is the new music company’. I always felt we were somewhat detached from the industry.
“I always felt that we were somewhat detached from the industry.”
Now we’re shifting our physical distribution to Universal from October, going direct to digital and building our relationships with DSPs, you’re starting to see people joining BMG from the majors, particularly in the US and UK; you didn’t see that before.
The industry needs to be more collaborative. The Ivors is the best awards show because it’s the publishing industry coming together, acknowledging and rewarding everybody else’s success.
There’s always a feeling in the room of collaboration. The BRITs is more competitive, you support your team. But music publishers are used to sharing songs; we share the song, so we share the success.
How have Thomas’ changes affected the way you work?
The biggest change Thomas has made is the focus on just being a publisher and a record company. It was great to be able to make documentaries and co-produce films but, on reflection after 12 months of not doing that, this is a much better way to run a business – to be super-focused on the core business of music publishing and records.
The other big change, which perhaps hasn’t been explained as well as it should have been, is the change to how we’re working internationally.
We had created a large international hub in Berlin and local marketing was going via Berlin. That team was disbanded last autumn, and there was a discussion in the industry about ‘BMG bailing out of international’ – which was totally contrary to what we are doing!
Now, with UK projects being marketed in America, they’re not going through a central hub, there’s just direct communication from London to Los Angeles.
Did BMG make its changes for the same reason that the majors did?
There’s definitely a cost implication. But, that aside, the real benefit is communication and [having] a management team at BMG worldwide who are all connected on a daily basis.
It doesn’t surprise me that flatter structures are coming, because the music business probably got a bit bloated and what we’re seeing is this recalibration.
“The business probably got a bit bloated and what we’re seeing is a recalibration.”
It’s an industry getting ahead of itself, making sure that we’re in good shape if growth does start to be not quite as anticipated. It’s always better to make changes when you’re doing well. There’s nothing worse than changing a business when it’s in crisis mode.
It’s healthy, but it’s also deeply sad for anyone who gets caught up in it. It’s always unsettling to lose members of staff and see people go who have played a part in building businesses, but companies do morph and change and, fundamentally, this structure is a better structure than we had, and it is working and delivering results.
Thomas has spoken about ‘doubling down’ in America. Where does that leave the rest of BMG’s territories?
Doubling down in America does not mean ignoring the rest of the world. It means there’s a confidence the rest of the world is OK and also an acknowledgement that we need America to give us more repertoire for the rest of the world. So, let’s have more incoming from the US.
We’re thrilled to have the success of Lainey Wilson and Jelly Roll, two of the hottest country stars. Lainey is heading for arena-level within Europe. And for Jelly Roll, we’ve partnered with Republic Records outside of America, which shows how we’re leaning into working with other companies. BMG is coming in from the cold.
Conversely, it seems to be a very tough time for British artists internationally…
If we were exclusively focused on breaking talent, it would be very difficult. But the world we’re in and the artists we’re working with… I look at Simple Minds; next year will be the biggest US tour they’ve ever done. I look at Louis Tomlinson; his touring is going from strength to strength.
That Suede/Manics tour began in the US. I remember going to the Brooklyn show and thinking, ‘This is the smart way for UK acts to team up’. You’re getting bigger audiences at less cost and you’ll see more of those package tours, they’re excellent.
It is harder than it’s ever been, but the lane we are in gives me confidence that we can work within the parameters of the current climate.
Does BMG still want to take on the majors?
One has to be realistic. Frankly, you’re not going to take [them] on. We want to be competitive, but we’re seeing much more of a collaborative spirit.
It should be a healthy, competitive marketplace but there are so many examples now where artists are featuring on other people’s records… So many records are X featuring Y and it involves two labels, one of them is the releasing label and the other one shares in the revenues.
There’s a lot more partnership coming and an artist doesn’t want to hear that you don’t get on with this label, because that’s buggering up their plans.
When we started, we had to be disruptive and agitate. But, as an industry, we’ll be stronger if we’re more aligned than if we fight with each other.
On the flip side, are you now looking over your shoulder at the likes of Believe coming up behind you?
It’s always wise to keep an eye on that, because otherwise you’re asleep at the wheel.
I’m confident that our global coverage, our A&R strategy, our forensic marketing and the label infrastructure we’ve put in place does set us apart from that area of competition. But people would have said that about BMG in 2015, so, if the appetite is there and the ambition’s there, it’s good to have competition and to see an industry where there are new players.
It’s a great time, because there are so many options for managers and artists to decide which universe they want to play in. There are different ways now to get music to market.
We have a lot of songwriters releasing through Believe or The Orchard and that’s great, if you can move away from thinking it’s a combat sport. We want people consuming good music, because that will help all of us.
What are your priorities over the next few years?
To be more impactful internationally. To support the doubling down in the US, by signing the records and artists that can be meaningful in America, and moving into stadium artists.
In 2018, we were in theatres. Now we’re in arenas. Our job is to demonstrate to those artists that we are a serious contender at that [stadium] level.
We’re proud to publish Dave Rowntree from Blur – we could do a Blur album. I’m proud to do the neighbouring rights for Coldplay – we could do a Coldplay record. I’m proud to have worked with Bono on the Peter And The Wolf project – we could do a U2 record. I’m proud to publish Matt Bellamy – we could do a Muse record.
Every time you think maybe BMG has run out of runway, it hasn’t. And, because of the way the industry’s going, there are more opportunities coming. This is a good time to be at BMG.
