WAre you aware that other people see the world differently than you? Of course this is obvious, but it is still a great reminder about it. Our guest today is Robin Hills, and he shares with us how about using emotional intelligence and the four types of business focus.
TODAY’S WIN-WIN:
Embrace your emotions and recognize that other people likely view the world through a different lens.
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- https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinhills/
- https://www.facebook.com/EI4Change/
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- https://www.linkedin.com/company/ei4change
- https://www.instagram.com/ei4change/
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBBxGskYxL0wnRfuyz_wHZA/feed
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Robin Hills is a business psychologist and the director of ‘E i 4 Change’. A company specializing in emotional intelligence for change in educational training, coaching, and personal development – focused around emotional intelligence, positive psychology, and neuroscience. Awarded “International Impact Company of the Year” – Award Winner by Dotcom Magazine in 2024. Robin has taught and empowered more than 500,000 people across 195+ countries. He is an accomplished author and keynote speaker. In 2024, Robin was presented an Honorary Doctorate in Advanced Studies in Psychology in recognition of his contribution to Emotional Intelligence training.
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TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Tom DuFore (00:01):
Welcome to the Multiply Your Success Podcast, where each week we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I’m your host, Tom DuFore, CEO of Big Sky Franchise Team, and as we open today, I’m wondering if you’re aware that other people see the world differently than you. And of course this is an obvious point, and I’m sure you’re saying, “Well, of course I know that.” But the purpose of today’s podcast is a reminder about that, and our guest is Robin Hills and he shares with us how using emotional intelligence can be a really effective tool in helping better manage your staff and team. And he shares the four types of business focus.
(00:48):
Now Robin is a business psychologist and the director of Ei4Change. It’s a company that specializes in emotional intelligence for change in education training, coaching, and personal development focused around emotional intelligence, positive psychology, and neuroscience. He was awarded the International Impact Company of the Year awarded by DotCom Magazine in 2024. Robin has taught and empowered more than 500,000 people across 195 countries. He’s an accomplished author and keynote speaker. And in 2024, he was presented with an honorary doctorate degree in advanced studies in psychology in recognition of his contribution to emotional intelligence. You’re going to love this interview, so let’s go ahead and jump right into it.
Dr. Robin Hills (01:32):
Well, my name is Robin Hills. My company is Ei4Change and my title? That’s an interesting question because it’s whatever people refer to me as. I’m Managing Director, I call myself Director of Training.
Dr. Tom DuFore (01:48):
I’m so grateful to have you on the show and to be talking about your expertise in specialty and emotional intelligence. And you run an enterprise where you’re training, coaching folks on emotional intelligence. And really, one thing that I was thinking of as a leading starting point is just give us an overview, what is emotional intelligence as a starting point from a high level? And how is this impacting or how is this used or part of a modern day workforce or workplace?
Dr. Robin Hills (02:20):
At a high level, that’s the way in which I work with emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is incredibly difficult to do and get right, but it’s the way in which you can be smart with your feelings. It’s the way in which you combine your thinking with your emotions, with the data that your emotions supply in order to make good quality decisions and build up authentic relationships, and then to take the right level of action. So that’s it at the high level, that’s my definition, that’s the way I work with emotional intelligence. But getting it right is incredibly difficult.
Dr. Tom DuFore (03:03):
What is it that makes something like this so difficult or challenging?
Dr. Robin Hills (03:08):
Well, it’s coming to terms with the fact that as human beings, we experience emotions on a moment-by-moment basis. The emotions that you and I had when we first came into our conversation are completely different from the emotions that we’re experiencing now, Tom. Look, I can’t put a label on these emotions. I’m just working with my emotions in order that you and I connect in a way that provides value to your listeners. And if I’ve got that in my mind as what I’m trying to achieve, then how do I use my emotions and how do I use my thinking in order to deliver that? Now there are going to be some things that I do that could have been done better, but as long as the majority of things that I do are on the right side of being right, then perhaps I’m using my emotional intelligence well. But there are going to be times when I get it wrong. I’m human like you are Tom.
Dr. Tom DuFore (04:07):
One thing in thinking about some of our pre-show discussion, and one topic that came up was this idea of strategies for managing stress and overcoming setbacks. And what I was thinking about in terms of that is what we do as a company is we work primarily with entrepreneurs to help them franchise their businesses. Well, now someone goes in and they’re a successful entrepreneur and now they’re teaching others to run their business enterprise. But for most that are going to buy in, these franchisees that will buy the franchise, they don’t have any experience as an entrepreneur in most cases or very limited. So there are going to be a lot, likely will be a lot of stressful scenarios, emotional hurdles to overcome, challenges that will be forthcoming. And so it just got me thinking about from a franchisor’s perspective that’s training these franchisees, what some scenarios might look like or some things that you might be able to help maybe give some nuggets or guidance for these franchisors on how to support their franchisees, especially in their first year or two of operation as they’re really figuring things out.
Dr. Robin Hills (05:20):
Well, I think a very good franchisor has a very good business to start with, that they’re franchising and they know how to do it. They’ve worked hard in order to get themselves to that point, but I think the key to understanding that is that they’ve done it because of the way in which they’ve utilized certain elements of their personality, their strengths. And they may come out with a list of things to do, press button A, pull lever B, turn the handle in the clockwise direction of C, and then you’ve got it. And most franchisees are going to be very reluctant to press button A, and they don’t know how to pull button B. So they might think I’ve got a different way of doing it. They may have a different way of doing it, but that’s not what the franchisor is selling. The franchisor is selling a process. And I think helping other people to work with that process, depending upon the personality of the franchisor is absolutely key.
(06:34):
And I think this is where the emotional intelligence comes in. And we’ve got to recognize that for both parties, it’s going to be very, very stressful. The franchisor has a very good brand, they have a very good product, they have a very good franchise to get right, and they want to put the right level of support into the franchisor in order that they can recoup their investment. Now that relationship is going to lead to levels of conflict at times. People are going to want to do it a different way. They might think that their way is right, they might think that the other person is wrong, and that can happen on both sides of the relationship.
(07:18):
And I think it’s important that that is recognized and a good franchisor will recognize that and adapt around it and recognize that conflict in a relationship is not necessarily a bad thing because conflict may lead to levels of challenge and challenge people’s thinking. And sometimes that other person might be right. So how do I adapt myself in such a way that I retain control, managerial leadership control, but allow the other person to try what it is that they’re suggesting and see how it works with my support? And that can be challenging and that can be stressful as well because you’re going away from the blueprint that you know that works. So I’m sure that there’s a lot in there that we can unpick, but I think that will help a lot of franchisors realize that the relationship that they have with their franchisee is absolutely key. And a lot of that is underpinned with emotions, cognitive thinking, and dare I say, emotional intelligence.
Dr. Tom DuFore (08:34):
Very well said. And certainly I think taking a look at the relationship with the specific franchisee when those requests for modifications or changes might come in, most franchise systems and how we advise our clients, we help them build out a process. How do you accommodate when some of those requests come in? And should you accommodate? And this is where these interpersonal dynamics and emotional intelligence really come in to help.
(08:59):
One thing it made me think of is franchisors during their training and onboarding of new franchisees, they’re teaching the processes and the systems and so on, but it’s not very often that I see some of these, what some might consider, more soft skills of interpersonal relationships and working with people. And you’re an expert at training on emotional intelligence. So what are some ways that maybe you’ve worked with clients or companies that are franchise organizations that incorporate this into their system. How have you seen that unfold in the past in some of this training for that?
Dr. Robin Hills (09:35):
Well, it’s a really interesting and very, very useful question for us to discuss here on your podcast here, Tom. Yes, I have worked with franchisors in the past and soft skills are not a part of most franchisors’ [inaudible 00:09:52]. And what I would suggest is that you actually look at people as individuals with different levels of focus. And if I can bring it down to a very, very simplistic but deep level, there are four types of business focus that the majority of people will have. This is a preference, and now a preference is a choice around doing something. It might not be right, it might not be wrong, it’s just a different way of doing things. Some people have a preference for and a focus for results and doing things quickly. Some people have a preference and a focus for quality, and they like to follow a process and they like a lot of information. Some people have a preference for teamworking and relationships and for harmony. And some people have a preference for creativity and innovation.
(10:52):
Now, each of these, there’s no right or wrong, but that’s a person’s focus. So understanding yourself and your own focus will help you to understand what it is that you need from a relationship. So you might have a focus for quality and you might have a focus for doing things in a very prescriptive, precise way with accuracy and with logic and follow the 10 steps in a logical order. Now, if you’re interacting with somebody whose focus is on innovation and creativity, they will jump in at step 10. They will break it and they will want to do it their own way. That is going to be incredibly challenging. So recognizing what your preference is is the first step to understanding how to engage with other people.
(11:48):
If you’ve got that preference and you’re working with somebody who’s got a preference for teamworking and people and harmony, they will go along with what you’re doing but they will do it in a very, very slow way because they’re thinking about the impact that this is going to have on other people. And they will follow the process, but they won’t necessarily follow it to the same level of detail and the same level of quality. And I think again, this understanding around your own preference is vitally important.
(12:20):
Now, a lot of franchisors, because they’re successful, will have a focus on getting things done quickly and a focus on results and a focus on the bottom line. And they will be very, very driving and assertive in terms of getting their information put across to other people. That may cause anxiety and problems with the relationships with other people. “Oh, he wants it done yesterday and I haven’t had the time to process this information and I haven’t had time to do it.” And you will find that all of these four preferences will abut against each other, and there will be antagonisms. Great, because if you can get it to work, it is a very, very valuable interaction.
(13:07):
Now, the very fact that you probably are going to find it challenging is going to lead to stress, which goes back to the original point of our conversation to look at stress. But it’s recognizing that other people just have different ways of wanting to do things. So how can you accommodate their ways of doing things with your ways of doing things?
Dr. Tom DuFore (13:32):
Very good point. So let’s talk a little bit about, I like how you broke these four types down. Results, quality, teamwork, kind of harmony, and four being creativity, innovation. I just kind of wrote down a quick summary there on those. How can someone figure out what does my own look like? What does my typical driver look like for me? And then how can I also then help others figure theirs out so it at least starts prompting some thoughts and conversations around it?
Dr. Robin Hills (14:02):
Well, looking at it from a purely professional viewpoint here, what I would do is go in and help people to understand their own preferences by using a behavioral or a personality inventory that would give people insights into their own preferences and how they play out and how they impact on the decisions they make and the relationships. And I’ve often done this within franchises to help people to understand these preferences in order that they can work well together. And when it works well, it works brilliantly.
(14:41):
Following on from having an understanding of your own level of preferences, you can then look out for people that have similar behavioral styles to yourself because you’ll find that you have an affinity for that type of person and you can communicate really, really well and really quickly with them. And then you’ll recognize that there are going to be other times when you’re really struggling to get your point across. And the reason is because you’re not adapting to the other person’s behavioral style. So what I do is help people to understand how they can build up this knowledge by looking at body language, by looking at the way in which people present themselves and looking at how these preferences play out, how people communicate, some of the words that they use. Let me give you some examples.
(15:35):
The person who is focused on results and outcomes will be by nature, very direct and very decisive in the way in which they go about things. The downside to that is that other people may see them as being aggressive and may be seen as being blunt. Again, no right or wrong, it’s just an expression of a preference.
(15:58):
The person who is focused on quality is very logical, very accurate in terms of what they do. They like to do things very, very precisely. The downside to that type of preference is that other people may see them as being quite critical, particularly if they’re not getting all the data and the information that they’re requiring.
(16:20):
Now, the person with the focus on teamwork are great if you’ve got a problem, they’re very patient, they’re very calm, they’re good listeners. But they may be very, very hesitant and they won’t make any big decisions without thinking it through. And it can be very frustrating at times. “Come on, just make a decision.”
(16:45):
And then the people who are very innovative and very creative, they’re bright, they’re enthusiastic, they’re optimistic. The downside is that they will go where the energy takes them so they can become very, very easily distracted. “Oh, what a lovely picture you’ve got behind you there, Tom.” So they can jump from topic to topic.
(17:10):
So each of these preferences, each of these styles requires handling in a completely different way. And a lot of good successful entrepreneurs and franchisors will have learned this, and they will do it intuitively. So what I try to do is to build up on that intuition, build up on that skillset, and get them to become better at it.
Dr. Tom DuFore (17:36):
Very, very well said. I like that. Well, while we’re on that subject here, for someone who’s listening in and says, “Well, Robin, I like what you’re talking about. I’d love to learn more or figure out how I can dig into what you’re doing,” what’s a way someone can get in touch with you or learn more about what you’re doing?
Dr. Robin Hills (17:50):
You can find me on LinkedIn, Robin Hills. You can go to my website, ei4change.com, or you can send me an email robin@ei4change.com. That’s ei4change.com. So I’m more than willing to answer any questions. And of course, if people want to take up one of these personality assessments, I’m quite happy to help people to arrange for them to do it.
Dr. Tom DuFore (18:19):
Wonderful. Well, that sounds great. Robin, this is a great time in the show when we make a transition. We ask every guest before they go, the same four questions, and the first question we ask is, have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?
Dr. Robin Hills (18:34):
Tom, if I didn’t have a miss on my journey, I wouldn’t be sitting here. No. The thing is, I can’t think of any specific miss that I had straight off the top of my head because I am one of these people who is very, very optimistic. I learn from my mistakes, but I think the thing is, let’s recognize what I did wrong, make sure that it doesn’t happen again, and try and build upon it. So rather than sitting there thinking, “Oh, I did this years ago, I wish I hadn’t,” let’s take the expression from Édith Piaf. [French 00:19:10] or whatever it is. My French is so dreadful. I have no regrets.
Dr. Tom DuFore (19:16):
Wonderful. Well, let’s look at a make or two, a highlight you’d like to share.
Dr. Robin Hills (19:21):
I started working in the field of online learning, online courses about 10, 12 years ago. It was very, very much in its infancy. I saw the potential opportunity there, particularly around the topic of emotional intelligence. Nobody else was doing it, or if they were, there were only one or two people doing it very, very superficially. So I focused in on it. And over the years, the number of courses that I’ve got has increased from 0 to 50 plus, and I have half a million people taking my courses in 200 countries. And from that, great opportunities arise such as the honorary doctorate.
(20:12):
So I suppose really those are makes, but if I was to go back 12, 15 years ago, I think this would link into your first question. If I was to talk to people about what it is that I was doing, a lot of people just could not get it. And when I was out networking with people and talking about online courses and emotional intelligence online courses, I could see their eyes glazing over. It wasn’t until COVID hit that, I think a lot of people suddenly thought, “Oh, I’m sitting at home doing nothing at the moment. I need to learn some skills.” So a lot of people would learn soft skills through online courses, and suddenly emotional intelligence and online courses came into its own. So there’s another make: a [inaudible 00:21:06].
Dr. Tom DuFore (21:07):
Excellent, excellent. Well, let’s talk about a multiplier you’ve used to multiply yourself personally, professionally, or organizations you’ve been a part of.
Dr. Robin Hills (21:18):
Well, let me go back to incorporating the answer to my previous question and build upon that. When I started with the online courses, it was very, very much a bit of a gamble. Is this going to work? Isn’t it? And when I put my first online course up, interestingly enough, it was around emotional resilience and stress management. I put it up onto a platform called Udemy, which many of your listeners may or may not know, but Udemy is still going incredibly strongly. And it was floated on the stock market a couple of years ago.
(21:57):
But anyhow, I put the first course up and then promptly forgot about it to be honest with you. And after about three months, I suddenly got a payment of a dollar. I thought something’s happening here. And then a few months went by and then I got a payment of about $20, and then I got a payment for $40. And I thought if I was to put a bit more effort into these online courses, perhaps there’s a business to be had here. So I started with other courses, introduction to Emotional Intelligence and various other courses, and building them up and putting them onto Udemy and my own platform and various other platforms. And within the first year, I’d made the grand total of $70. And I thought, “Okay, right. Well, that’s better than nothing.” Now, quite honestly, if I’m not making $70 a day, something is going wrong. So what I’ve done in terms of the multiplier, I’ve just added more and more and more and more courses. And of course, each one has multiplied the benefit of all the others.
Dr. Tom DuFore (23:20):
The final question we ask every guest, Robin, is what does success mean to you?
Dr. Robin Hills (23:25):
Success to me means feeling comfortable in my own skin, it means giving to other people, and helping other people to feel good about themselves and to do the best that we possibly can for each of us and everybody. If I can do that, then I’m being emotionally intelligent. If I’m doing that, then I’m being successful.
Dr. Tom DuFore (23:54):
And as we bring this to a close, Robin, is there anything you were hoping to share or get across that you haven’t had a chance to yet?
Dr. Robin Hills (24:00):
I have, and I’m rather reluctant to do this, but it does fit in with everything that we’ve been talking about, Tom. I had my book published as a second edition last month, and this is The Authority Guide to Emotional Resilience in Business: Strategies for Weathering Storms in the Workplace. So if anybody is interested, you can have a look at that, and it’s available on Amazon and through all good bookstores. So like I say, I’m rather reluctant to mention it because I’m not here to self-promote. I’m here really more to add value into people and hope they get value from our conversation, Tom. That’s my driver for success, but it does seem to fit in nicely with what we’ve been talking about.
Dr. Tom DuFore (24:54):
Robin, thank you so much for a fantastic interview. And let’s go ahead and jump into today’s three key takeaways. So takeaway number one is when he defined emotional intelligence. And I liked how he said, “It’s the way you can be smart with your feelings.” I thought that was a great little nugget.
(25:11):
Takeaway number two is he said, “Well, what makes emotional intelligence difficult?” And he said, “Well, you need to recognize and embrace your emotions and how do you use emotions in thinking to communicate?”
(25:25):
Takeaway number three is when he gave us the four types of business focus and talked about how it’s a preference, it’s not right or wrong, it’s just a way in which you view things or interpret the world around you. And he said the four types are people who are results-focused, quality-focused, harmony or teamwork-focused and innovation-focused.
(25:45):
And now it’s time for today’s win-win. So today’s win-win is really thinking about embracing your emotions and recognizing that other people likely view the world through a different lens. And I really think that’s just the key takeaway for the day, that it’s just a reminder. That’s really what this episode’s about. It’s just a reminder to think about that today, this week as you’re interacting with others and remembering, and I know I find myself in this when I’m in the hustle and bustle and the daily grind of just doing what I need to do to get stuff done. Sometimes I forget, “Oh, others see things differently or interpret things differently.” And so how I might be communicating or saying something or communicating with that person, it may not resonate as deeply or impact what they’re looking to do as well as I might think it. So that’s the win-win for the day.
(26:42):
And that’s the episode today folks. Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember, if you or anyone you know are ready to franchise their business or expand their company to the next level, please connect with us at bigskyfranchiseteam.com. Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you back next week.